For many people concerned about the climate, how much we fly is a big dilemma and a challenge! Flying burns a LOT of fossil fuels, and is the single biggest source of climate pollution for most frequent flyers.

Family lives abroad, work demands travel, and social pressure pushes the other way.

"The plane's going anyway" is something you hear a lot, but does it actually hold up? In this episode, Kim talks to Ed about his struggle to fly less: the guilt, the trade-offs, and the practical alternatives he's found for family visits, work trips, and travel.

See SHIFT for more on other ways to travel, combining flights or flying less: https://jointheshift.earth/climate-actions/fly-less

Strategies covered

Combining trips to reduce emissions, making fewer trips but staying longer, and other ways to maximise quality time with loved ones without it feeling like sacrifice. Subscribe or follow Climate Actually wherever you get your podcasts to catch every episode.

Resources mentioned in this episode

• The Man in Seat 61, an independent rail travel guide founded by a former UK rail industry professional. www.seat61.com

• Flight Free Campaign (We Stay on the Ground): https://westayontheground.org/the-flight-free-campaign

• https://wecanfixit.substack.com/i/70289095/action-fly-less-yes-you

• https://jointheshift.earth/climate-actions/fly-less

• https://www.wearepossible.org/frequent-flyer-levy and

• https://wecanfixit.substack.com/i/38231014/facts-the-rich-need-to-get-to-work

Funding from the Swedish Research Council Formas Communication Grant.

Most people rank recycling as a climate action ahead of voting, but research has found that voting for a pro-climate candidate could matter far more than your personal emissions.

In this episode, host Kim talks to Kate, a former construction sustainability manager turned Environmental Voting Project volunteer, about why so many climate-minded people don't vote consistently, and what to actually do about it.

"I think people are really starting to attend to the problem, but everybody doesn't know what to do,” Kate said.

They cover how to register and plan to vote, how to identify climate leaders on your ballot using tools like the Congressional Scorecard and OpenSecrets, and how Kate is helping expand the climate vote, one handwritten postcard at a time.

Subscribe to catch every episode.

Head to Kim’s newsletter to view the transcript and facts and resources from this episode: https://wecanfixit.substack.com/

To find out more about voting for climate action, see SHIFT: https://jointheshift.earth/guide

Transcript

Climate, Actually, Episode: Voting. Edited interview transcript. Speakers: Kim Nicholas (host) and Kate (guest, Environmental Voter Project volunteer).

Kate: So I volunteered to write two hundred postcards and send them out to these likely environmental voters who voted in the presidential election but didn’t vote in the last midterms, to remind them and encourage them to vote in November.

Kim: You figured out how to use your talents for high-impact climate action, and you focus on the highest-impact climate action, what we can do as citizens in voting and in helping others to vote.

Kate: I think people are really starting to attend to the problem, but everybody doesn’t know what to do.

Kim: Hi, Kate. You’re in Virginia, in the US, and you’re a volunteer with the Environmental Voter Project. Today we’re going to talk about voting as a high-impact climate action. So welcome, so glad you’re here.

Kate: Thank you, it’s great to be here. Nice to meet you.

Kim: Nice to meet you. I’d love to hear more about your story. How did you get interested in voting and being an engaged citizen in the first place?

Kate: It’s a long and winding road. My interest in the environment in particular comes from my childhood, my dad was a biology teacher, so we spent a lot of time outdoors and appreciating nature. Then I went into the construction business, worked as a construction manager, pretty much every seat at the table, for many decades. And for the last five years I worked as a regional sustainability manager for a large construction company, so I really got into the environment in a deep way. On the voting side, I went to the polls with my mum every time she voted, in every election, for as long as I can remember, so voting was always a right and a responsibility to me. Then, a few years ago, I felt like I could get more involved in the electoral process and decided to volunteer to work at the polls here in Arlington County. I’ve been doing that for a while, and I’m really glad I did, I’d encourage everyone to do it, just to see how the voting process works and truly how secure and well managed our elections are. Now I’m working as a consultant in the environment, and part of my role is to bring together businesses, community groups and local government. So I came across the opportunity to work for the Environmental Voter Project and jumped right in.

Kim: That’s very cool. How does that fit in with the political scene where you are, what’s the political discussion around climate where you live?

Kate: It’s very interesting in Virginia, which most people would consider a purple state, it’s an interesting mix of all political perspectives. It’s divided in that the cities and population centres tend to lean more progressive and the rural areas tend to lean more conservative, but everybody in Virginia loves the beauty of the state, so there’s a lot of common ground there. I think we have candidates on both sides who can be pulled into the conversation about the environment. That’s what I’m looking for in Northern Virginia, where I am, it’s a pretty densely populated area, tends to lean progressive, and our candidates tend to be very environmentally conscious. The Environmental Voter Project gives me an opportunity to reach out to other people to get them more involved in the process.

Kim: Virginia is where I fell in love with fireflies. Coming from California as a kid, we had family friends in Virginia, and it was just such a miracle. So yes, there’s a lot of natural beauty in Virginia. Can you tell me more about what the Environmental Voter Project does, or what you do as a volunteer there?

Kate: Sure. I’m new to EVP, but I’m really excited about working with them because of their approach. They do a deep dive into all the publicly available data about how people vote, and what other information is out there to judge whether people are likely to make the environment a high priority when they do vote. So they identify these environmental voters, it’s publicly available information whether or not you vote, not how you vote, but whether or not you vote. They find environmental voters who vote sporadically, or who vote in the presidential election but not in the midterms, and reach out to remind them to vote. It’s a nonpartisan effort, a nonprofit, and everyone doing this work does it on a volunteer basis. The part I signed up for is sending out postcards. I volunteered to write two hundred postcards to these likely environmental voters who voted in the presidential election but didn’t vote in the last midterms, to thank them for voting last time and remind and encourage them to vote in November. I think it’s a really great strategy, and I’m looking forward to getting involved.

Kim: That’s great, and it fits with what we know from research about voting and climate. There are three really key facts I think a lot of people don’t know.

First, not enough people vote consistently, there are a lot of people eligible to vote who don’t. The Pew Research Center says “most Americans are not consistent voters; these intermittent voters often determine the outcome of elections.”¹ So voting is incredibly critical.

Second, voting is a huge climate action, it really matters, we ranked it the number one climate action of all the high-impact actions in the SHIFT guide. Citizen action is the most powerful thing we have, and the most powerful citizen action is voting, because it really matters who sits in office and who makes the policies that affect all of us, it has a huge impact on climate pollution. But people tend not to think of political actions as climate action. So in a large survey of North Americans, far more people named recycling as a climate action than voting². But voting has a climate impact 162 times more effective than recycling, if you vote for a pro-climate candidate, that was from a Canadian study. ³ Third, most people support climate policy and want to see climate action from politicians, but think other people do not. So 89%t of almost 130,000 people in 125 countries said they wanted stronger political climate action, but they underestimate very strongly how much other people want it.⁴

So we’re sort of in this bubble of silence where we’re missing out on all these opportunities. People aren’t voting consistently, they may not realise how important their vote is for climate, and they think other people don’t care about climate as much as they do. How does this line up with what you’ve seen so far?

Kate: Yes, it’s the same things that I’ve been reading. And it’s kind of shocking to think about how many people don’t vote. And yet a lot of people talk about how our political system is broken because there’s so much money in it, and big businesses own the politicians, but really, we’re the ones who put them in office. And the fact that in the off-year elections in the US, half of our voting population doesn’t vote, that just tells you how much potential power there is out there. And as you mentioned, most people in the US really do care about the environment and care about the climate. And so if they take the time to find out who’s going to be supportive of environmental actions and vote, we could have a really powerful voter block.

Kim: Absolutely. One of my favourite studies, I always tell my students to put the key finding in the title of a paper, and the study did that very well. So the study is called “Americans Experience a False Social Reality by Underestimating Popular Climate Policy Support by Nearly Half.”⁴ So as you say, people really don’t look around and don’t talk about climate, don’t hear about it enough in the media, get this wrong idea that people don’t support it as much as they do. But the Yale Climate Opinion Maps show that 67% of people in Virginia are worried about global warming, 69% support the US economy transitioning from fossil fuels to one hundred per cent clean energy by 2050.⁵ Sixty nine per cent is a really strong majority.

So getting people to vote on that is really critical. So tell me more about how you were feeling about climate before you started this work with the Environmental Voter Project. What was your motivation to get involved?

Kate: So it’s interesting you ask, because when I took on the new role, after years of working in construction, boots on the ground, I took on this new role as a sustainability manager for the Mid-Atlantic region, and I knew when I took the position that it was going to change me, I just didn’t know how. And I was already concerned about climate and the environment, but I knew that by learning more detail and immersing myself in it, it was going to really change my focus. And it’s like once you know, you can’t forget, you can’t unknow it.

But I was encouraged by what I saw in the design and construction business, those businesses are working very hard to decarbonise in every way they can, so that was encouraging. But I also felt like we’re all very siloed, businesses are in their silo, governments in theirs, academia is in theirs, and we really need to do more bridge building. So I feel like if we can get everybody on the same page, as you said, people do care about climate, especially in terms of how is it going to impact me, how is it going to impact my children and my grandchildren. And with recent wildfires and heat waves, I think people are really starting to attend to the problem, but everybody doesn’t know what to do.

So I think things like what you’re doing with SHIFT, and other climate activists and writers and bloggers and folks on Substack, there are a lot of opportunities to plug in and see how we can make a difference as individuals, as members of our community, as members of a corporation. So I am hopeful. I know that the clock is ticking, we have to work quickly, but I think, as you say, we can fix this.

Kim: Nice. Yeah, absolutely. And that’s, I mean, what you say about seeing people working hard, trying to decarbonise as fast as possible in your industry, as you say, we know from research that the more people believe that it’s possible to solve the climate crisis, the more engaged they get and the more effective their actions are. That’s also true for government, that people need to see governments being effective at taking climate action, in order to create this virtuous circle of supporting and enabling and electing those politicians who will take those policy decisions⁶. Do you feel like the people around you understand the importance of their vote for the climate?

Kate: Not necessarily. And again, I’m kind of in a bubble in Northern Virginia, where people do tend to vote in ways that end up supporting environmental action, whether they’re doing it deliberately or not. And that’s also kind of part of the norms of this community. But I think there are other parts of the state where people actually need help connecting the dots to understand the value of voting for someone who’s going to support climate action and environmental action in general.

Kim: So did you have a lightbulb moment that helped you connect the dots between climate and voting, or was that more of a gradual realisation?

Kate: I would say it’s been a gradual transition, but since I do follow a lot of people who are working to improve the environment, I get a lot of newsletters and emails, and I happen to get this email from the Environmental Voter Project. And when I read about their approach and their strategy, it just made so much sense to me. So that was sort of a lightbulb moment, to understand. Yes, when we have such a high percentage of people not voting, it’s key to get people to the polls who are going to support climate action and environmental action.

Kim: Absolutely. Any success stories so far from your work there?

Kate: It’s interesting, I feel like I’m kind of part of a network. I do have a web page, I do have a blog, not a huge amount of followers yet, but every week I have more people coming there, and friends have reached out to me and told me, oh, I love your blog and you really made me think about something differently, or I passed this on to my son. And that really makes me feel great. I may not be able to influence millions of people, but it is kind of like a drop in the ocean, those ripples go out, and I feel like that makes a difference.

Kim: Absolutely. Yeah, building community and sharing these norms and sharing what you know certainly has a big effect. How do you make time for that? I mean, this is not your full-time job, you already have one of those, so you have plenty of things going on in life. How do you make room for it?

Kate: I did make time for this because I left the corporate world about six months ago, just so I could focus on this. I loved working in sustainability management and construction, but what I saw was this huge umbrella, because I really had to learn every aspect of environmental impact and how to reduce environmental impact, and it can be overwhelming. And I feel like a lot of people are intimidated because it is overwhelming, but I realised I needed to figure out how I could best contribute using my talents, and which narrow piece of it was manageable for me, because I had my fingers in too many pies as it was. So now I’m quote unquote retired, but I did start a consulting practice, and I get up every day and work on this, and in fact have a hard time turning it off, as I’m sure you can imagine.

Kim: Yes.

Kate: But I love it, it means so much to me. And really the way I balance it is by spending a lot of time in nature. I do like to go for a hike through the suburban woods here, and we’re lucky in Arlington, we have lots of paths through the woods. So I get out and walk in the woods, or this week I went to the beach and roamed on the beach for a couple of days. So that kind of brings me back and centres me to continue the work.

Kim: I can definitely relate to that. I’m about to unplug for a few weeks and head out sailing with my husband, and see where the wind takes us. So that is a great time in nature for us.

Kate: That sounds wonderful.

Kim: Yeah. So I’m curious, how did you figure out what your work was? Because I think so many people are in that same space of being overwhelmed, wanting to help, they have skills and talents and some time to contribute, but how to do it effectively. What made you realise what your role could be?

Kate: I’m actually still working on it.

Kim: Me too.

Kate: So the last year that I was in the corporate world, I started thinking about it. So in my off time, I spent the time to really deliberately prioritise what really matters to me and what gets me excited. And actually, I talked to friends about it, and your friends will tell you when you’re talking about a particular thing and your eyes light up, so that’s helpful. But then I also spent a lot of time thinking about my childhood and my upbringing and what I liked to do over the years. And both my parents were educators, and one of the things I loved doing in the corporate world was training and facilitation, workshopping. So I’m kind of making a list of, okay, these are the things I’m good at, these are the things I like to do. And then, as I mentioned, I noticed the siloed nature of everyone’s efforts. So now I’m working on this intersection of where does public policy meet community organisations, and how can we pull in businesses, and how can we make sure people are voting, just where do all these things come together, and how can I help empower and motivate people to do the right thing and to work together.

Kim: You figured out how to use your talents for high-impact climate action, and you focus on the highest-impact climate action, what we can do as citizens in voting and in helping others to vote.

So let’s dive into how to actually do that in practice, how you do that, and any questions you might have, and then how we can help others do that too, because this is so important. And there is a midterm election coming up in the US, elections around the world, and climate is on the ballot in every single election, wherever it is, and there’s always issues related to climate there.

So basically, there are three steps to vote for climate. So first, it’s register and plan to vote for climate leaders. Second, it’s identify those climate leaders, so figure out who are the candidates or measures that are climate leaders on your ballot. And third is to expand the climate vote, like you’re doing with the Environmental Voter Project.

So you’ve said you’ve gone to the polling place first with your mum since you were little, so I have the feeling you are registered and you have a plan to vote, but can you tell us about that?

Kate: Sure. I am registered, and for the past few elections I have taken advantage of Virginia’s early voting, partly because I really have to, since I’m working the polls on the voting day, it just makes it a whole lot easier. And Arlington County is very strict about poll workers, we have to be there all day, in some jurisdictions they work half days, but Virginia has decided that we can better control and better report if the poll workers are there from five thirty in the morning until nine o’clock, ten o’clock at night, until we’ve properly accounted for all of the ballots and gotten them all wrapped up properly and signed off. So it’s a long day. So I vote early, and it’s just a matter of going to the courthouse, which is a couple of miles from my house, on a Saturday or an afternoon when I have the time to go and it’s convenient for me. They’ve made it really easy, and I think that’s something that every jurisdiction should think about, how can we make it easy for people to vote?

Kim: It’s a great resource to look for an independent organisation that’s assigned a climate score to candidates. So in the US, that’s the League of Conservation Voters, and there was a study that showed that the states in the US that had elected politicians with a good score from the League of Conservation Voters significantly reduced their carbon emissions.⁷ So it does work to elect politicians with a good climate pledge, basically, or climate record. What they do, the LCV does, is they assess, they focus on votes that are important for climate and the environment, they track how people vote on them, and then they give them a score of did they vote in line with, in favour of climate, or against. And that really cuts through the noise. They get a score from one to one hundred. So that is very informative.⁸

In Europe, we have the Climate Action Network that does something similar. In Sweden there’s the Society for Nature Conservation. So it depends where you are, but there are a lot of resources out there that can really inform your vote. How have you found it, to identify climate leaders on your ballot? Have you checked on the scores, for example?

Kate: Sure. Yes. And I actually, our congressional, our Senate, our senator and our representatives have been in office for quite a while, and I’ve followed them for a long time and called their offices on occasion. And so I’m very familiar with them. I need to do research when there are folks running for local elections. So I dig in more when it’s for the county board or the school board, which are also critical environmental positions, they make decisions and enact policies that can make a huge difference. So typically I’ll go to their own websites to see what they’re saying, use some of these other websites to see if there’s other information out there, and then go to their events in person, and see if they can convince me that yes, the things that are posted on their website are things that they really believe in and are going to follow up on.

Kim: Yeah, that’s great. And you’re so right about every election being important. And that’s local, state and national elections. That’s also, there might be elections at work, people to represent you on committees or boards, unions, activity groups that you’re a part of. All of those positions of power and leadership and decision making have opportunities to take climate action, wherever they are. Those are really important positions.

Kate: Yeah, and the other thing I would say is sometimes on their own websites or on their own material, you get some general statements or some platitudes, and if in the back of your mind you’re thinking, well, what does that really mean, then, yeah, it’s worth asking them. You can talk to them in person or call their offices and say, hey, I see on your website that you believe in this generic environmental support or climate action, what does that really mean, how will you make a difference, what will you push for in terms of local action or policy? And I know there’s a pledge, you can tell me more about it, a pledge that they won’t take funding from fossil fuel producers.

Kim: Exactly. Yeah, so there’s, in the US again, there’s this No Fossil Fuel Money dot org, it’s a pledge that candidates can sign up for, that they promise not to knowingly take donations over two hundred dollars from major fossil fuel producers. And there’s quite a lot of signatories on there, and you can check on their website and enter the name of your candidate and see if they’ve signed.⁹

There’s also a great resource, you can really go down some rabbit holes, as I was doing today, OpenSecrets dot org. So they have a lot of publicly available data they’ve put together in a really nice way, and you can see the funding for your candidates.¹⁰ So, and maybe we’ll take a look at those for you as an example, if you don’t mind.

The last thing I was going to say, before we do that, was a surprise in climate action, is to elect women. So a 2019 study showed that more women in parliament resulted in lower national emissions, via stronger climate policies insert ref ¹¹. So lots of reasons to support gender equality, but climate action is definitely one of them. I think you have two men representing you in the Senate now, and you have a male, I believe, for your House of Reps as well.

Kate: We do. But we did just elect a female governor in Virginia recently.

Kim: I did go ahead and look up Donald Beyer, who’s running for the House of Representatives for re-election, that’s in your district, right?

Kate: Yes.

Kim: Okay. So he got a ninety seven per cent lifetime score from the League of Conservation Voters.¹² So he’s been voting strongly in favour of climate and environment, it seems. But it was really interesting, that’s another very informative website, where you can see, for example, how they voted on specific issues. So there was this House vote last year that would basically require that new fossil fuel plants would get to cut in line ahead of renewable energy, so basically hooking up more coal and gas and oil plants to the grid, ahead of wind and solar and clean energy. So that is obviously going in the wrong direction, expanding rather than phasing out fossil fuels. And your representative voted no against that, which was the pro-environment vote. That looks like that actually hasn’t gone forward, there wasn’t any action in the Senate on that yet, so that has not become a law. But you can see what kind of things Congress is doing, which is really useful to know and to have clear.¹³

Kate: Yeah, that’s great. The other thing I would say is sometimes when you read the bills or you read the explanation of the legislation, it is a little confusing or a little overwhelming. So I would encourage people, if you’re not sure what a yay vote or a nay vote meant on this issue, do a deeper dive on the issue, or call your senator or representative’s office and talk to them about it and find out why they voted the way they did.

Kim: Yeah, that’s great advice. And then on the funding side, we checked on No Fossil Fuel Money dot org, and we could see that actually, he had signed on, so he has pledged not to take fossil fuel money, which is a very good thing.⁸ When we checked OpenSecrets dot org, there was some funding from Energy and Natural Resources, including fossil fuels, but that was the case for every candidate that we checked. So I didn’t find a single candidate, I didn’t look at the thousands, each and every one that they have in the database, but it does seem that fossil fuel money is very deeply embedded in politics in the United States and elsewhere, which is part of the problem of why we still have these policies, infrastructures and norms supporting fossil fuels. But it was a very minor, small part of the overall funding. So I think you can really see where the money goes, and for candidates with low climate or environment scores from the League of Conservation Voters, they tend to have much higher fossil fuel funding. So there looks like there is a correlation there.

And then lastly, I want to talk more in detail about how to expand the climate vote. So you said you’re writing two hundred postcards, you mean like pen and paper, by hand, you’re actually writing them, is that right?

Kate: Yes. We’re actually writing them. And the good news is the Environmental Voter Project trains you to do what you need to do, whether you are signing up to do postcards, or phone calls, they also do door-to-door canvassing. But they do give you a script, or they tell you exactly what to put on the postcard, and in fact, you have to promise to not put anything else on the postcard, because they have tested the messaging, they’ve been doing this since twenty fifteen. So they’ve been testing messaging, and for the Environmental Voter Project, it’s not a one-and-done deal, they continue following up to find out what’s working, what is getting people to the polls, what is making it a sticky habit that they’re going to repeat with every election. So yes, I’ll be writing two hundred postcards, and I have, I think, a month or so to get it done. They also are very strict about when the postcards need to be sent out, to take advantage of the messaging at the right time in advance of the election. So I figure I’ll do some every night over the course of a month and manage to get it all done. And it’s not a lot of verbiage, like I said, it’s just, thank you for voting in the last election, and remember to vote in November.

Kim: So you don’t even name the environment or climate on these postcards, it’s just that the Environmental Voter Project has identified, these are voters who do care about and vote on climate, and if they go to the polls, they will do that.

Kate: Exactly. So like I said, it’s a great strategy. It also does say Environmental Voter Project on the postcards, so there is that, that one word, to encourage and highlight what’s a priority.

Kim: I saw on their website that since 2015, they’ve contacted 12.8 million non-voting and seldom-voting environmentalists, and helped convert over 2.2 million of them into super voters who consistently vote in every election, is that right?¹⁴

Kate: Yes, that’s what I read, and hopefully we can crank those numbers up even higher.

Kim: I mean, it’s amazing because the margins are so thin, that is really enough to make a big difference in a lot of elections, it’s a lot of people.

Do you have any frustrations or setbacks or barriers you run into in trying to expand the climate vote?

Kate: I would say more than a setback or a barrier, just a challenge. I think it was Katharine Hayhoe who said, we need to talk about it, talk about the environment, talk about the climate, that’s one of the most important things you can do. But it’s a little challenging, as we’ve said earlier, people do care, but it has become so politicised in this country that there are certain trigger words. And it’s not a matter of telling people what to do, it’s a matter of just talking about the topic, and everybody recognising, yes, we have issues with the environment in general, with the climate in particular. And just kind of putting the topic out there and making it not a taboo topic, and then sort of transitioning into discussion about, yeah, what should the government be doing?

Kim: Yes, absolutely. Any stories or anecdotes or things definitely do or don’t do to try to make climate more of a topic?

Kate: That’s a great question. And one approach that I learned from is what’s called deep canvassing. I read a few years ago about how door-to-door canvassing doesn’t necessarily work if you just go knock on someone’s door and say, here, vote for this candidate, that doesn’t sway people. But what does sway people, whether you’re canvassing or whether you’re just having a casual conversation, is find out what they care about and go down that road. And if you find out that someone has kids or grandkids, they’re really concerned about their futures, so there is a place you can sort of open the door and find common values and let the conversation go from there.

Kim: That’s a great tip, and it matches the research I’ve seen and advice from Climate Outreach and other organisations that study climate communication and what works¹⁵. And Katharine Hayhoe has this message as well, of start with shared values and points of connection and things that you care about ¹⁶.

You mentioned earlier also that most people share a love and concern about the natural environment in Virginia, and care about your beautiful landscapes and beaches, and want to keep enjoying them, and protect and preserve them for future generations too. So that seems like another point of shared interest.

Kate: Yeah, another opportunity that I’ve done some outreach with is there’s a group in this area called Faith Action for Climate Solutions, and it’s a group of various religious organisations who have come together, and, as we were saying, found that common value, because really every religion has some approach to valuing the natural world and creation. So there’s another opportunity to find common ground and work together to change our public policy.

Kim: Well, this conversation has helped me, and I really appreciate your time. It sounds like you’re ready, and you already are, but do you feel that you’re ready to vote for climate? You have a plan to vote for climate, and helping others do the same?

Kate: Absolutely.

Kim: Anything you wish I had asked, or anything else you want to mention before we wrap up?

Kate: I would just reiterate the importance of building bridges. I know a lot of people that you talk to and that you reach are working really hard, whether it’s for a nonprofit or within their business or within their community. But we have to get out of our silos and work together. And that really makes it more fun too, because you find people who think like you do, but have new and different ideas, and you come up with solutions that you might not have thought of by yourself. So I would say, just keep building those bridges.

Kim: That’s great advice. Well, thank you so much, Kate, for being a bridge builder. We’re lucky to have you, and thanks for all that you’re doing.

Kate: Thank you. Keep up the good work.

Footnotes

1. Hannah Hartig, “Voter Turnout in US Elections, 2018 to 2022”, Pew Research Center, 12 July 2023: intermittent voters often determine the outcome of elections. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/07/12/voter-turnout-2018-2022/.

2. Seth Wynes, Jiaying Zhao and Simon D. Donner, “How Well Do People Understand the Climate Impact of Individual Actions?”, Climatic Change, 162 (2020): fewer than 5% of 965 North American respondents named a political action, including voting, as the most effective action they could take to reduce emissions, roughly twice as many named recycling. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10584-020-02811-5.

3. Seth Wynes, Matthew Motta and Simon D. Donner, “Understanding the Climate Responsibility Associated with Elections”, One Earth, 4:3 (2021), 363 to 371, DOI: 10.1016/j.oneear.2021.02.008. Figure 2 of the paper gives the median winning (pro-climate) vote in the 2019 Canadian federal election as responsible for a reduction of 34.2 tCO2e, against 0.21 tCO2e for a year of recycling, a ratio of approximately 163, matching Kim’s figure of “162 times more effective than recycling” as stated in the recording. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.oneear.2021.02.008.

4. Peter Andre et al., “Globally Representative Evidence on the Actual and Perceived Support for Climate Action”, Nature Climate Change, 14 (2024): 89% of almost 130,000 respondents across 125 countries want their national government to do more on climate, and people systematically underestimate this support. See also Gregg Sparkman, Nathan Geiger and Elke U. Weber, “Americans Experience a False Social Reality by Underestimating Popular Climate Policy Support by Nearly Half”, Nature Communications, 13 (2022), which Kim refers to by title in the episode. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-024-01925-3.

5. Yale Program on Climate Change Communication, Yale Climate Opinion Maps: state-level estimates of Virginians’ worry about global warming and support for a 100% clean energy transition by 2050. https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/visualizations-data/ycom-us/.

6. Goldwert, D et al., Governmental efficacy is a key psychological pathway to climate action”, Nature, https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-026-03743-1

7. Muñoz, J., Olzak, S. and Soule, S.A. (2018), Going Green: Environmental Protest, Policy, and CO2 Emissions in U.S. States, 1990–2007. Sociol Forum, 33: 403-421. https://doi.org/10.1111/socf.12422

8. League of Conservation Voters, National Environmental Scorecard, tracks how members of Congress vote on environmental, climate and democracy legislation. https://www.lcv.org/congressional-scorecard/.

9. No Fossil Fuel Money Pledge: candidates and elected officials pledge not to knowingly accept contributions over $200 from PACs, lobbyists or named executives of fossil fuel companies. https://nofossilfuelmoney.org/pledges/.

10. OpenSecrets, campaign finance and lobbying data, including funding by industry for US candidates. https://www.opensecrets.org/

11. Astghik Mavisakalyan, Yashar Tarverdi. Gender and climate change: Do female parliamentarians make difference? European Journal of Political Economy. Volume 56. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ejpoleco.2018.08.001

12. League of Conservation Voters, Congressional Scorecard profile for Rep. Donald Beyer (D, VA-08): 97% lifetime score. https://www.lcv.org/moc/donald-beyer/.

13. League of Conservation Voters, “Fast-Tracking Fossil-Fuel Power over Clean Energy onto the Grid”, House Roll Call Vote 279 (H.R. 1047, GRID Power Act), passed 216 to 206 on 18 September 2025; no was the pro-environment vote; no Senate action taken. https://www.lcv.org/roll-call-vote/fast-tracking-fossil-fuels-over-clean-energy-to-our-grid/.

14. Environmental Voter Project, “Our Results”: since 2015, EVP has contacted 12,769,860 non-voting and seldom-voting environmentalists, of whom 2,183,117 are now consistent “super voters”. https://www.environmentalvoter.org/results.

15. Talking climate handbook – how to have a climate change conversation https://climateoutreach.org/reports/how-to-have-a-climate-change-conversation-talking-climate/

16. Talking climate change with Katharine Hayhoe https://woods.stanford.edu/news/talking-climate-change-katharine-hayhoe

Further resources referenced in this episode

• SHIFT, high-impact climate action guide to elect climate leaders: https://jointheshift.earth/climate-actions/elect-leaders

• Vote.gov, US voter registration:

https://vote.gov/

• US Vote Foundation, election dates:

https://www.usvotefoundation.org/

• Environmental Voter Project:

https://www.environmentalvoter.org/

• Kim Nicholas’s newsletter, We Can Fix It:

We Can Fix It

Evidence-based, relatable advice on facing the climate crisis with facts, feelings, and action from climate scientist Prof. Kim Nicholas

By Kimberly Nicholas

• Climate Action Network https://caneurope.org/news/press-release-eu-parliament-scoreboard/

• Sweden’s climate voting guide, Valkompass för klimat och natur 2026 https://www.naturskyddsforeningen.se/kampanj/val2026/valkompass2026/

Most people never think to check who their bank lends to or invests in, but switching to a fossil-free bank is ranked as the highest-impact climate action you can take with your money in the SHIFT guide (https://jointheshift.earth/).

In this episode, host Kim talks to Matt, a First Direct/HSBC customer in the UK, who discovers his bank's fossil fuel financing for the first time, live, on the call, and what he found when he compared fossil-free alternatives.

They cover why banking matters so much more than most people realize, how to check your own bank's fossil funding score, and the practical steps for switching to a climate-friendly bank without losing your direct debits, your mortgage payments or missing any bills.

To find out more about whether your bank funds fossil fuels or if you'd like to switch: see SHIFT: https://jointheshift.earth/climate-actions/bank-fossil-free.

Subscribe or follow wherever you get your podcasts to catch every episode. For more information and material from the episode, subscribe to Kim’s newsletter: https://wecanfixit.substack.com/

Transcript

Climate, Actually, Episode: Banking. Edited interview transcript. Speakers: Kim Nicholas (host) and Matt (guest).

Kim: It can feel like a small action, but actually switching to a fossil-free bank is the highest-impact climate action in the SHIFT guide to high-impact climate action, under the investor or financial role.¹

Matt: I can’t understand why we’re not making more effort to make positive climate choices all the time. There seems to be forces pushing against that.

Kim: Banks are still lending to coal mines and fracking, and to the companies that are expanding them. So our hard-earned money can actually be part of fuelling the climate crisis inadvertently.

Matt: I just don’t remember having weather like we’re having at the moment. I don’t think it’s rained for a long time. The ground is so dry and cracked. It’s kind of where I want to move to, making as many positive choices as I can.

Kim: Hi Matt, thank you so much for joining us.

Matt: You’re welcome, Kim. It’s nice to meet you.

Kim: Nice to meet you. So let’s dive in with the facts. What got you started thinking about your bank and the climate crisis?

Matt: I’ve got a very good friend who is very climate-conscious, and he raised with me one day the effect your bank can have if you make the right choices with it. I think we’re all getting very concerned about the climate. We’ve had a recent spell of very hot weather in the UK, and I think it’s a hot topic and people are finally realising what’s going on in the world. I think that when you can make what seem like small decisions that can help, it’s a great thing to do. So when my friend mentioned this to me, I had a look on the internet, and I’ve been looking at different bank accounts that are considered to be greener than the one I’m currently with.

Kim: Right. It can feel like a small action, but actually switching to a fossil-free bank is the highest-impact climate action in the SHIFT guide, under the investor or financial role, because so many of us have a bank, and because banks, unfortunately, are still investing in fossil fuels.¹ To stop climate change we have to stop production and consumption of fossil fuels. We have to stop building and expanding pipelines and infrastructure, shipping fossil fuels around and extracting them from the ground. We have to leave them in the ground. But banks are still lending to coal mines and fracking and the companies that are expanding them. So our hard-earned money can actually be part of fuelling the climate crisis inadvertently.

Matt: Sure, when you say that it completely makes sense, but it’s just something I hadn’t considered before speaking to my friend about it. Hence why I’m looking into it and speaking to you now, in fact.

Kim: Well, you’re in very good company. I think most people haven’t really connected the dots. So what is it that you look for in a bank, or what services do you need? If you’re thinking of switching, what would a new bank need to provide, or what is it you get from your current bank that you value?

Matt: I switched to my bank about twenty years ago, before I became climate-aware. I predominantly switched because they had excellent customer review scores. It was always quite easy to get hold of them if you needed to, and they had a good reputation in the market, so I felt I could trust them. I do most of my banking through the app, as I think a lot of people do now, so it’s important that the app has great functionality. And I need to rely on them: I need to have confidence that my mortgage will get paid every month, and that when I make a transaction, it will go through without any hassle.

Kim: Absolutely. The less we can think about it, the better.

Matt: That’s it.

Kim: I’m with you there for sure. So who is it that you bank with, if you don’t mind sharing?

Matt: Of course. I currently bank with First Direct, which is part of the HSBC banking group, so one of the very big ones in the UK.

Kim: Right, okay. Would you like to look into their spending on fossil fuels? Do you want to know more?

Matt: I’m not sure, but no, actually, I do. Go ahead.

Kim: Okay, so a little bit of background. The Banking on Climate Chaos report has assembled the numbers. It finds that the world’s sixty-five largest banks committed 906 billion US dollars to financing fossil fuels last year, an 8% increase on the year before.² Expanding and supporting fossil fuels, which we need to be phasing out, shutting down, and making a just transition away from. Eighty-seven per cent of that global financing is concentrated in six financial centres: the US, Canada, Japan, China, the UK, and the European Union.² You’re based in the UK, is that right?

Matt: That’s correct, yes.

Kim: So you’re in one of those important centres. HSBC is one of the top banks financing fossil fuels. According to the Banking on Climate Chaos report, HSBC has committed 77.8 billion US dollars to fossil fuel financing since 2021, ranking twenty-first among the world’s biggest bank funders of fossil fuels.²

Matt: Wow.

Kim: How does that make you feel?

Matt: Not great, really. It makes you feel like you are supporting that through your everyday banking. It’s a huge number, isn’t it?

Kim: Yeah, it’s really mind-boggling. And it’s so frustrating that so much money goes to digging the hole deeper, when you’re in a hole, stop digging and invest in solutions rather than continuing the pollution. There are companies HSBC has funded since 2021, including Saudi Aramco with 1.8 billion US dollars, ExxonMobil with 1.5 billion US dollars, and TransCanada Pipelines with 1.5 billion US dollars.² So definitely not putting the money towards winding fossil fuels down and investing in clean energy.

We’ve talked about what you want in a bank, and the practical services you need. Let’s talk a little about your values around money, because that’s really important. What is it that you’re saving for, or how do you use your money? How does that align with your values now?

Matt: Sure. I come from a working-class background, and I guess I’m quite similar to my parents: quite conservative with my money. I try not to be a big spender, and I try to invest for my future as much as I can while living in the moment too. But in terms of my values, especially when it comes to the climate, I’m becoming incredibly frustrated with the situation we’re in. I can’t understand why we’re not making more effort to make positive climate choices all the time. There seem to be forces pushing against that, and that’s where I want to move to, making as many positive choices as I can to get us to a better place. But I wish the larger political parties would align with that too.

Kim: No, it’s right on topic. The number one climate action in the SHIFT guide is to vote, and to elect politicians who will make strong climate policies, because policies that apply to everyone can have a bigger impact than any of our individual actions taken alone. That’s why we focus on linking our individual choices and impacts with collective action, and how the actions we take can be part of bigger movements that harness those superpowers. I think you’re spot on. Research also supports that switching to a fossil-free bank is more effective in countries that have better regulation³.

No single climate action, whatever it is, is a silver bullet; we need a chorus of policies, actions, infrastructure and norm changes working together. But where we spend our money is part of that, and turning personal frustration into action can be really powerful.

What would you say was your climate awakening? Was there one moment that turned you on to this, or has it been an accumulation of things?

Matt: I think for me it’s been more of an accumulation. I work in the aviation industry, so I’m well aware that’s a big contributor to the climate crisis, and that certainly gets you thinking about the impact it’s having on the environment. Then, slowly, as we’ve seen more news stories about severe weather, and because I travel quite a lot for work, you end up seeing the impacts of these crises in the places you go. I remember from when I was a child to now, and I just don’t remember having weather like we’re having at the moment. It hasn’t rained for a long time, the ground is so dry and cracked, and there’s no rain forecast. I see all the farms around us, all the wheat starting to dry out, and I’ve just not seen anything like that. And that’s after one of the wettest winters we’ve ever had. So I think it’s looking at the world around you and immediately seeing the change, and that’s accumulated over time.

Kim: So you’ve had accumulating experience with increasing extreme weather yourself, and you see it affecting those around you, on the farms, and the people affected by it, and in your work. And you want to be responsible with your money and save for the future. Is there a particular financial goal you’re working towards?

Matt: I guess it’s the big one really: retirement. It’s constantly weighing up investing your money in the most sensible way to ensure you’ll have enough in retirement, while living for today. We’d like a camper van so we can holiday in the UK and possibly not have to fly as much, so that’s the next thing on the agenda. Other than that, it’s just trying to live a good life and make sure we have enough saved for the future.

Kim: It’s really similar to climate action: we want to live well now, and we also want it to be possible to live well, for ourselves and others, in the future. How we invest our time, energy and choices now makes such a big difference down the line. So does that make you feel ready to think about switching your bank to a fossil-free one?

Matt: Yeah, I’ve already been looking. I’ve found there are a good few banks in the UK that are considerably better than First Direct in terms of climate impact. I’ve looked at Nationwide, the Co-op, and I think there’s another one called Triodos. I’m weighing up between those three, and it’s all quite positive. As far as I can see there’s very little to differentiate them from the bank I’m currently with, which is great, because you get the green incentive with very little change. So it almost seems a no-brainer to change.

Kim: Great, so you’ve already done the homework. We’ve confirmed that your current bank, First Direct, is part of HSBC, one of the banks funding fossil fuels. So that’s the homework for switching to a fossil-free bank.

There are really three steps, and you’ve already started the first. First, find a good bank. Second, switch to that fossil-free bank. Third, and really importantly, tell your old bank why you left. It’s important that we communicate and let banks know what’s important to us.

There are a couple of resources for this: the Fair Finance Guide, which covers twenty countries including Sweden, where I live, though not yet the UK, and Bank.Green, which rates and assesses sustainable banks. Have you found a good resource to help identify fossil-free banks?

Matt: No. I basically used AI and asked which ones it would recommend, but I’d love a more detailed breakdown, maybe charts and percentage scores, something that weighed the three banks against each other based on what they offer and where they invest their money.

Kim: Perfect, I think Bank.Green is a great tool for you. They have a red-to-green, traffic-light-style system: you get a smiley face rating. The three you named, we checked ahead of time, and they’re all listed there, so I think those are great options. It sounds like the next step would be to look at the features they offer and see what works for you. Do you want to try looking at it live? I haven’t prepared it, but we could go through it together.

Matt: Let’s do that.

Kim: Let’s figure it out.

Matt: I’ve got my phone here. Is it worth me looking now?

Kim: Sure, why don’t we do it like that. Let’s put it to the test and see if it works. The website works in the UK and many other countries as well: Bank.Green.

Matt: Bank.Green.

Kim: I’ll talk you through it, let’s see what you find. I think one of the first questions will be your country.

Matt: Here we go. United Kingdom, a hundred and forty-seven banks listed. I know it’s a lot. Is there a way to list them in order?

Kim: By score, let’s see. I see you can filter, for example, by local branch. I have bank accounts both in Sweden, where I live, and in the US, where I’m originally from. I switched those about six years ago, before this site existed, I think. For me it was important to have a local branch I could go into, because I’m still a bit analogue, I use the app, but I like to talk to human beings. I see they have a tick box for local branches. How can we rate by score?

Matt: I’ve just searched for Nationwide, for example. I don’t know if you can see it on screen, there we go, a big green tick.

Kim: Oh, you got an emoji.

Matt: Heart eyes.

Kim: I know, doesn’t get better than that.

Matt: That’s it, so that tells me that’s quite good. If I search for the other one I was seriously looking at, the Co-op, there we go, “your bank as a leader in climate responsibility,” I think it’s very much the same.

Kim: Does it give you a numerical score, or just a chart? It looks to me like the arrow’s in the same place.

Matt: No, not that I can see, just a chart, but the arrow is pretty much in the same place.

Kim: So those are two really strong choices. If you narrow down to those two, are there other things to consider, like what kind of loans they have? You said you want your mortgage paid on time; are you thinking of switching your mortgage to a new bank as well?

Matt: Yes, absolutely. The way I generally bank is: I have my current account, everything goes in there, all my main bills come out of there, and I do most of my monthly spending on a credit card, which I pay off at the end of the month, because I’m not sure how it works in Sweden, but we get greater consumer protection spending on a credit card, for items over a hundred pounds you get various protections. So I try to do most of my spending on the credit card, and I’m guessing I could look at the credit card as well.

Kim: You sound more responsible than me, I tried to do that and spent too much money when I had a credit card. I need to see the money in the account, and when it’s going down, I need to spend less of it. The other thing that took me a long time to figure out, which is a bit embarrassing, is to allocate money to savings as soon as it comes in from my paycheck. It wasn’t that long ago I finally figured out that when my paycheck comes in, a set percentage should automatically go into savings and I never see it, and then I have an account I’m spending from that I can keep better track of. So it makes sense if you can do a good job managing your money; I just found it too hard to keep track, but it sounds like you have a great system that works for you. So it’s important to have a credit card at the new bank, and a mortgage. How does the interest rate compare between these two options and your current bank?

Matt: My mortgage is with a separate company, so that comes out of my current account every month. My mortgage isn’t up for renewal yet, but in terms of banking, that’s something worth looking at. At the moment interest rates have been very up and down. Due to the size of the loan, even a small percentage change in the interest rate could make quite a big difference to monthly payments. So I’d be happy to look at greener choices for my mortgage bank, but I’d probably be more sensitive to price when switching, because it would have a bigger financial impact for me.

Kim: I totally get it. So let’s just focus on the bank for now, where your paycheck will go, where you do your ordinary savings, pay your expenses and pay off the credit card. Investments are a separate topic, but worth thinking about too. Do you have stock market investments through your bank?

Matt: I’ve just started. In the UK there’s a tax-free wrapper called an ISA, and at the moment they’re trying to strongly encourage you to take up a stocks and shares ISA rather than keeping savings in cash, to invest some of that money within this tax-free wrapper. I’ve literally just started doing that now. And my pension is an investment too, through one of the big pension providers I get through my work. It would be quite difficult to change, but I could certainly look into where it’s invested, though that requires more knowledge than I currently have.

Kim: I’m not a financial expert either, but I try to follow the advice of experts and align my money with climate solutions as much as I can. Those are also high-impact climate actions: divesting your pension, and any investments you have, and making sure neither is supporting fossil fuels. But that’s part of the bigger picture.

If we focus on the bank, you’ve identified two good options. Maybe spend a bit of time comparing and making sure you’re comfortable with the services, and then the next step would be to switch. When I did this, I did it all manually, transferring the money from my old account, and it wasn’t as bad as I thought, though a little annoying.

But it looks like in the UK there’s an amazing service called the Current Account Switch Service. My producer has used it and said it worked like a charm, and took a week. It’s a free service provided by the banking industry, and if you choose a new bank, it will move over all your direct debits and bills automatically. Is that something you’re familiar with?

Matt: Yes, I’ve definitely heard of it, but never used it. I’ve spoken to other people who have, and they say it works very well, and I think there’s some kind of guarantee. I’ll be keeping an eye on things at month end after the switch, just to make sure everything goes to plan.

Kim: Perfect. And what about telling your old bank why you left? I wrote a letter in the US, I had Bank of America, one of the world’s largest funders of fossil fuels². I was sad when I found that out, because my family has a history with Bank of America: they gave my grandparents a loan during the Depression that allowed them to buy a farm and start a business that supported my family for generations. But unfortunately they’re still major fossil fuel investors, so I wrote them a letter, which I’ve linked from my newsletter, and we’ll put it in the show notes.⁵ There are also campaigns with templates you can use to let your bank know that customers don’t want them investing in fossil fuels⁶.add ref Is that something you’d consider, whether a letter, an email, or a note on social media?

Matt: One hundred per cent. I’m almost hoping they’ll have a drop-down menu asking why I want to leave. I don’t know whether that’s a thing, but I’m more than happy to send them an email or contact customer services and let them know why I’ve left, because it’s one of the small things we can do to try to have an impact.

Kim: Absolutely, and studies show it does have an impact. For example, when banks stopped funding coal mines, those coal mines actually shut down instead of finding new funding, measurably reducing emissions. That was a Harvard Business School study.³ It’s part of not just these direct impacts, but shifting the culture away from funding and supporting the fossil fuels causing the climate crisis. The more we do that, the more banks, institutions and politicians get the message that there’s movement and energy behind this, and it becomes less feasible to continue those investments, with more uncertainty, which banks and financial institutions don’t like. So it really does add up and make a difference.

Matt: I’m finding it incredibly frustrating about the political climate we’re all in. I think it’s all very connected: the financial institutions are linked with the big oil companies, linked with the political climate at the moment, and there’s a lot of lobbying and cash handling going on behind the scenes. So the more we can do to send that message to the political parties of the day,t try and make that change the better I feel. If this is one small thing I can do, I’m more than happy and willing to do it.

Kim: That is awesome, it really brings me a lot of energy knowing that you’re out there, and people like you are out there who want to help. I see that again and again in my work. It can be really tough and depressing reading the news.You hear about these it’s called carbon lock-in, three reasons why we still have a fossil-fuel-dependent world: infrastructure, policies, and norms and culture that reinforce those⁷. We have more extraction, pipelines and infrastructure; we have policies, subsidies and financing that support it; and we have a culture that expects and celebrates it. Any change we make to unlock one of those three underlying drivers can start pushing for the transformation to a fossil-free world that we need.

So I really appreciate it. It sounds like you’re ready to make a switch, and I’d love to hear back from you on how it goes. Do you feel you have what you need to put your money in a fossil-free bank?

Matt: Yes, absolutely, thank you, Kim. I’m going to go away now and do my research. I think I’m most likely going to go with Nationwide or the Co-op, I’ll have another look, and I’m ready to make the switch this week, so I’ll let you know when I do. And if you could send me the template letter you sent to your bank, that would be fantastic, and I’ll do the same with First Direct.

Kim: Absolutely, I’ll share the letter with you and make sure to put it in the show notes. And you just get an emoji with heart eyes, because you’re choosing a fossil-free bank. That’s so wonderful. Thank you so much, Matt.

Matt: You’re very welcome, Kim. It’s been very nice to meet you.

Footnotes

1. Kim Nicholas and Project Drawdown, SHIFT“Bank fossil-free” action page: https://jointheshift.earth/climate-actions/bank-fossil-free.

2. Banking on Climate Chaos, Fossil Fuel Finance Report (2026 edition, covering 2025 data): world’s 65 largest banks committed $906 billion to fossil fuel financing in 2025, an 8% increase on 2024; 87% of that financing flows through six financial centres (US, Canada, Japan, China, UK, EU); HSBC has committed $77.8 billion to fossil fuel financing since 2021, ranking 21st among global bank funders; HSBC financing since 2021 includes Saudi Aramco ($1.8bn), ExxonMobil ($1.5bn) and TransCanada Pipelines ($1.5bn). https://www.bankingonclimatechaos.org

3. Theodor F Cojoianu , Francisco Ascui , Gordon L Clark , Andreas G F Hoepner , Dariusz Wójcik. Journal of Economic Geography, Volume 21, Issue 1, January 2021, Pages 141–164, https://doi.org/10.1093/jeg/lbaa027

4. Harvard Business School, “What Happens When Banks Divest from Coal?”, Working Knowledge: coal plants closed when their former lending banks adopted divestment policies. https://www.library.hbs.edu/working-knowledge/what-happens-when-banks-divest-from-coal-climate-change.

5. Kim’s letter to Bank of America. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.bankingonclimatechaos.org/?bank%3Dall%23fulldata-panel&sa=D&source=docs&ust=1786892716327013&usg=AOvVaw1d6MhqAoWk6to5BVIfSCHt

6. Template letter for after you have switched bank accounts vhttps://www.ethicalconsumer.org/money-finance/template-letter-after-you-have-switched-bank-accounts

7. Seto, Karen et al. Carbon Lock-In: Types, Causes, and Policy Implications.https://www.annualreviews.org/content/journals/10.1146/annurev-environ-110615-085934

Resources referenced in this episode

• Bank.Green, climate-friendly bank ratings:

https://www.bank.green/

• Fair Finance Guide International:

https://www.fairfinanceinternational.org/

• Ethical Consumer, template letter for after switching bank accounts: https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/money-finance/template-letter-after-you-have-switched-bank-accounts

• UK Current Account Switch for changing banks,

  https://www.currentaccountswitch.co.uk

• Kim Nicholas, “Break up with your mega-bank”, We Can Fix It newsletter: https://wecanfixit.substack.com/i/36921440/action-break-up-with-your-mega-bank

• Kim Nicholas, letter to Bank of America explaining why she closed her account: Google Doc